Bleeding Fiction

Its an interesting concept

why do people make this lists?

And why do people keep going to them to see how they rank?

Do we have a pathological need to compare ourselves to others?

Gotcha beat at 11.

Uh, that is... um... *cough*

So, we going to play Star Wars RPG this weekend?

Well, the first list (and reading it I'm pretty sure the second one, too) is supposed to be pretty tongue-in-cheek. Definitely a bit of poking fun at yourself, which is why I posted the lists here. I like the laugh.

And it is a sort of a funny social commentary; the idea that one person looks down on another because their hobby is geekier when, in fact, anyone who falls anywhere on the list could, in theory, get looked down on by "mainstream" society.

As human beings we probably do have the need to compare ourselves to others. That doesn't always have to be a bad thing, of course. Comparison, after all, is one of the best means of self-definition or self-discovery, as well as a great way of figuring out similarities between apparently differing things. It also serves as a marker for achievement and gives people something to push past.

The way comparison becomes harmful is when it gets used that way - to belittle someone or something. That's the part that don't need; we just do it out of habit and ignorance and convenience. And I've got to admit I've got a hard time not looking disdainfully upon "People Who Write Erotic Versions of Star Trek Where All the Characters Are Furries, Like Kirk is an Ocelot or Something, and They Put a Furry Version of Themselves as the Star or the Story" or upon "People Who Think They're Dragons, Faeries or Otherkin."

But therein is the true power of evil: it's not seductive so much as it is just easy.

For the record. You're a Jew. It's kind of like being a U.S. citizen. You were born into it, and no matter how much you could profess that you're not, in the end your opinion would not matter under the law. I realize that you could find ways to debate this point, but that would be pointless because we would be starting from different grounds and neither would win. Let's just call it a rebuttable presumption. From your point of view at least, has it been fully rebutted? If not, then you can't call yourself a pagan. If you choose the definition that any non-Christian is a pagan, well that's just ridiculous. I don't think Judaism has ever been called a pagan religion by anyone, ever. As for being a Geek... sorry, can't help you there :)

A recent group i was reading talked about how litle african-americans played d&d and other geekly stuff and an asnwer to that that i really liked was.

maybe they have better things to do?

:)

You and I have had the "Jew/not Jew" argument before, Vitaly, and yes, better to just call it a rebuttable presumption. From my pov? Yes, rebutted.

That said, still definitely not a pagan. After all, "pagan" just means "farmer" in Latin, and I haven't taken that one up.

Gus, you bring up a good statistic, but I think we all have better things to do than play d&d. ^_^ I'd more be willing to buy that rpg's aren't marketed towards African-Americans. Also something to be said about the different focus of an urban culture, but that generalizes the locations of African-Americans in the US more than is fairly accurate.

True but how would you market an rpg outside of the main white-american segment of the market after all it has to be profitable if anyone is going to publish it.

I can see myself playing an ethiopian warrior comandeering a roman legion against hannibal

but i dont know if its the same for an african-american what do they like to play?

There are very few african-americans here in mexico and the few i have met didnt seem like they played any rpg's at all

Gus

Well, like I said, Gus, I don't want to generalize about African-Americans ("blacks" to save me space). I've met a few who game, like I've met a few Asians who game, a few Hispanics who game and a few women who game. No clue how the percentages play out when comparing the general to the gaming population.

Broadly speaking, I can say two things:

1) If a game isn't marketed for you specifically or at least for a general audience, you're not too likely to pick it up. The example people always give of this one is D&D (marketed pretty much to middle-class suburban white males) vs. early Vampire (marketed to goths). Vampire had a much higher percentage of female players because it was supposedly more accessable to women due to a) strong female characters presented in the fiction of the game world and b) a greater focus on role-playing and intrigue and a smaller focus on combat and loot.

So, in the same way that you appeal to a female gamer by a) making women in your game world more than just sex objects or victims to be rescued and b) appealing to a more "female" mindset (and God but isn't that statement a can of worms), you can appeal to a black audience by a) having blacks in your game at all (which few games seem to do) and not making them tribal warriors or other such when you do and b) having your game discuss issues that will be of concern to a black audience (another can of worms, since there's no more a unified black audience than there is a unified white, hispanic, asian, female or any other audience (hell, not even a unified audience of "people who play rpgs").

2) Urban cultures (of whatever ethnicity) are rarely literate cultures. You could probably chalk that up to the struggle to survive economically taking time away from the parents' ability to encourage the children to read and taking precedence over luxury items like books. You could also put some of the blame on the larger number of single-parent or decidedly broken homes. To say nothing to throwing in the issues of violence or drugs.

That's not to say that all blacks live in urban cultures any more than it is to say that no whites do. To be fair (and broad-based), I can say that I've never met a gamer (of any ethnicity) from a deeply urban enviornment. Interestingly, I have met gamers from lower-income rural enviornments, but that's a seperate issue entirely.

And none of this is getting into the issue of "priveledged security," where it's ok for a priviledged majority to pretend to be or act as if they were members of a minority culture because they're secure in the strength of their majority, but it's not ok for the minority to do the reverse without losing (or being accused ot losing) their connection with their own minority. This is part of why you can see a lot of middle-class suburban white kids in the States dressing "ghetto." (The other part is the lure of the forbidden/other.)

But the ultimate capstone here is representative sampling. In other words, I'm a middle-class white suburbanite: I don't exactly know all that many folks from deeply urban areas, so any comments I make are at best hearsay. For all I know, every black living in the heart of New York City except for the few I've met is a gamer. In other words (to make a very long story short) you and I both, Gus, might just be meeting the wrong people to judge by.

(and, on reading that over, an aside: anyone who thinks that Jason should be back in the world of academics, please raise your hand.)